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The MINT Prjct
THE podcast to elevate your knowledge on pregnancy & postpartum fitness, nutrition and more along with parenting, business and advice to keep you living your best life. MINT stands for Motherhood In New Terms and we are so excited to begin bringing you fresh content in regards to all things motherhood, fitness, parenting, nutrition and so much more in a new way that is raw, unfiltered and hopefully refreshing. We are 3 gym owners, coaches, moms coming together from 3 different time zones to lay down some real talk when it comes to training through pregnancy along with a variety of other topics. Our goal is to remove the stigmas, clear the confusion, empower moms and trainers, and have some fun while doing it.
Learn more about The MINT Prjct and our programs by visiting TheMINTPrjct.com!
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The MINT Prjct
Balancing Parenting, Fitness and Therapy with Ray Forrester
Ever had a moment when your professional and personal lives collided in ways you didn't expect? That's what happened to today's guest, Ray Forrester, a licensed clinical social worker, former professional rugby player, and spouse to Cara, Director of Education at The MINT Prjct. His journey from New Zealand to America and his experiences in the fitness industry offers a unique perspective on how he intertwines his clinical therapy expertise with sports conditioning to assist clients. This uncensored chat brings to light the influential role of mindset in fitness and overall well-being.
He journeys into the realms of parenting, discipline and communication, including his own personal struggles and victories. He also shares some heart-wrenching experiences - from coping with the trauma of a difficult birth, the emotional turmoil of having a baby in the NICU, to juggling work, family life, and maintaining a gym. It's a raw, emotional rollercoaster ride that many parents would find relatable. We also delve deep into the sensitive issue of teen addiction, drawing upon Ray's vast experience in residential youth treatment and addiction recovery.
As our conversation winds down, we shift focus towards the critical aspect of self-care, expression, and connecting with heritage as levers for mental well-being. Ray shares how he balances family, work, and fitness, and the importance of finding fulfilling outlets like baking and wood carving! You don't want to miss this episode!
To learn more about The MINT Prjct and check out our programs and courses, head to TheMINTPrjct.com and follow us on Instagram, as well as your hosts, @bets.inthewild, @_coach.cara_ and @jesscarr.fit
If you're a busy mom who wants to get strong, keep up with your kiddos, not to mention look and feel amazing without spending hours in the gym, we have good news. Our program, mom's Strong by Mint Strength and Conditioning, is the perfect program for all of the above. Designed with the busy mom in mind, this four day a week program can be done at the gym or at home during nap time in 45 minutes. It is time to get mom strong. For all the details, head to themintprojectcom. All right, welcome back to the Mint Project podcast.
Speaker 1:Today we have another one of the hubbies. We have Ray Forrester, who also known as Kara's husband. Kara is our director of education and her husband, ray, is a licensed, licensed clinical social worker. Dad of three with Kara, he is a former professional rugby player, baking enthusiast, which I need to know more about, and just started getting into wood carving, which I also want to know more about. Ray has been so great in supporting all of us and obviously especially Kara in the Mint Project and just her dreams of pursuing helping more moms out in the fitness space. So we are super grateful to have you on the podcast today, ray. You're welcome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks. I was really surprised when Betsy reached out. I thought it was a joke or something, if you want me on, I'll come on the podcast.
Speaker 1:No takebacks.
Speaker 3:No takebacks.
Speaker 1:No, well, and also your lovely accent. Please tell us a little bit about your background, where you're from, and then a little bit about where you are now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I came here from America, from America. I came here to America from New Zealand 15 years ago now, came over to play rugby in college yeah, just from a small little village in the South Island of New Zealand, and you know, with Kara being from Alaska, when we arrived here to St George for my first job out of grad school, you know, this is the desert, this is like red rocks desert, 110 degrees in the summer, and we're like, ok, this is temporary, like I'm going to put two years in with this place, but you know, we've been here six years now and we love it, this is home. So, yeah, I'm an American citizen, this is home now. And, yeah, just glad and lucky to be here, for sure.
Speaker 1:And you both had a gym for a little while. Tell us how you got into that and how you got into fitness especially.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one of my good buddies that played rugby with up at BYU. They owned CrossFit Cedar City, and so I was working in residential treatment with teenagers at the time and I would take kids there to train and work out, especially with young men. When it comes to therapy, they don't want to just sit down and talk. But hey, why don't we go have a workout? Yeah, yeah, you know every, every young man especially wants to, wants to get bigger biceps and be stronger, and you know it's after two, three sessions working out. I don't know everything about them. You know that's when all the talking happens.
Speaker 3:So used to, yeah, use my friend's gym up there, and they had a young son at the time and you know we were talking about family and stuff at the time. I'm like man, how awesome is this? Like they could been raised in a gym, and just that was always Kara's dream as well. And so it just came together. It really did. It came together for us to buy CrossFit St George, which evolved as we grew into it and, yeah, that's how the gym ended up coming to be. And also for me, I was able to have my private practice clinical practice out of the gym as well, so sometimes there'd be classes going on out on the floor and I'd be in my office with with clients, working with them, and I'd work out with them a lot as well. You know, physical health is just a bigger part of mental health. So, yeah, that's how the gym kind of came about. That's so cool. I love that y'all were able to get into the gym.
Speaker 4:I love that y'all were able to really marry two things that go so well together physical and mental health. Like how cool would it be if more gyms had a mental health aspect as part of their business. That's just a really unique marriage there of those, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think, I think you know they do it to a small degree, you know, like the coaching and mind mindset's kind of the more common term used in fitness circles, right, mind-set training Again, that's not me giving a slight towards it, because it is all mindset, so but to be able to do it from a true clinical, you know, building people's insurances for clinical services and really being able to merge the two with our respective, you know, specialties in what we do just come together really well.
Speaker 2:So, ray, he has a master's degree in social work, so he's a licensed clinical therapist, social worker, and then he also just recently got another master's degree in sports conditioning and performance because he really wanted to work with those two aspects together. You know, we as trainers if you've got trainers listening to this, or you know even moms we all know mental and physical health is just, I mean, you can't really separate the two. And so, like he was saying, to have someone who is clinically able to work in the mental health capacity setting but also on the physical side, and just to know both of those, was really cool and he was able to really kind of create his own niche of people to work with. And we did have a lot of those clients at the gym. Even our clients that came in just for gym stuff, you know, ended up getting a lot of mental health work as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, sometimes as a trainer, you almost feel like people come in and you feel like you're becoming some sort of therapist or that that's also being asked of you, because people come in and that's their time to vent and get their self care. And, oh my gosh, if I had someone in the corner to be like hi, can you actually go see this licensed person? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:That was kind of something we would joke about. Like you know, I'm a licensed therapist, but the two other therapists in society and most women will know this Personal trainers and hairdressers they know everything about their clients Right, and that's what the basis of what's referred to as experiential therapy is doing something while talking Again this is effectively effective for men.
Speaker 3:Women typically bond through talking, men typically bond through doing, and so you know the game of golf. That's why a lot of business people you know they do golf, because while doing the talking comes more freely, there's less guards up. I've planted pot plants, I built a doghouse. I had some teenage two brothers that would come in when we were building out the gym, and so that helped me because they were very tactically inclined and so, as they're screwing a couple of things together, they're just talking, you know, just getting across from someone else, and the game would you know when you're getting a hairdresser, when they're sitting there and you're not face-to-face direct but you're in the press committee.
Speaker 3:You just yeah, yeah it takes a lot of pressure off. So even the most basic form of experiential therapy is just walk and talk. So cool. So it was very rare that I'd actually just sit down in my office and talk. You know traditional psychotherapy. Most of the time 80% or more would go for a walk or would meet on a tray or a hike, or you would lark.
Speaker 2:Do you guys know what larking is? Yeah, I had a client Live action role-play.
Speaker 3:I had a client that I would lark every time we were coming. We would lark Yep, I made A-swords and we would make sword fights.
Speaker 2:They made swords out of PVC pipes. Yeah, and we would get Betsy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for a little. Betsy's like what in the world?
Speaker 1:I can't believe. You don't know what that is no.
Speaker 3:Betsy, get with the team, Okay is there like video? Footage of you doing this Well that would be a hippo violation now, oh, but you could just demonstrate and Kara could film it as marketing for this podcast. We actually did ask Betsy would be interested in joining, and sometimes I was like she's busy.
Speaker 4:Oh no, she's busy.
Speaker 3:What time will we have all of those you would have without a?
Speaker 2:doubt Gotta get my sword skills done.
Speaker 4:Yeah, when we're all together, I'm going to need you to teach us to lark. Yeah, no, it's so interesting that you do the. What do you call it?
Speaker 3:Experiential therapy is kind of the.
Speaker 4:Lord.
Speaker 3:Amdahlah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Stuck on the larking. Stuck on the larking.
Speaker 3:Larking is an individual thing.
Speaker 1:It's a form of it.
Speaker 3:You've never gone to a park and seen a bunch of people dressed up as medieval.
Speaker 4:Okay, it's coming together now. I have never seen it in person.
Speaker 3:I've never done it myself until I did it with this, but that was his form of expression, so I was more than happy to do that?
Speaker 4:Heck yeah.
Speaker 3:Let's do this, heck yeah.
Speaker 4:Do what?
Speaker 3:she got to do.
Speaker 4:So I, my husband, just started with the therapist for the first time ever and they're having him make a bracelet while talking, and that now there's evidence space. That's so interesting.
Speaker 3:Oh no, it's absolutely evidence space Well.
Speaker 4:I would assume it was, but it's it's interesting to hear that, like that's for sure. In fact, when he told me that I was like, oh yeah, that's so effective for you to like be busy doing something else to take the pressure off of your words that you're saying yeah, so, so I he started therapy. He's a dad of three now. I know you're a therapist. You've become a dad at like those interesting roles together. What did you always want to be a dad, or what was your outlook when you guys got married?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I you know I'd have a hundred kids, I didn't have any more and sense. But yeah, I always wanted to be a dad. You know that. I know that that was as part of my role. You know, as as a man, in society.
Speaker 4:We can't hear you.
Speaker 3:I was very I was very, very lucky to be. I was in the foster system growing up and I but I was very lucky to have good, positive role, male role models my entire life growing up and and, yeah, it was just being a dad was just always something, and it's it's my most pride title possession that I have in this life and so, yeah, just being a dad is the best.
Speaker 4:Oh, I love it. So we, you've got three kids. Tell us their ages again.
Speaker 3:Kai is five, jack is three and Aila just turned one. Aila, baby, yep, if you follow us on social media.
Speaker 4:You've seen Aila a lot. Anytime we've been at an event in the last year, she is there. She's our mascot. So we heard about Kara's most recent birth experience on a podcast a while back. What was it like for you being the dad in that situation or really any of your births experiences together?
Speaker 3:Can you leave the room? Yeah, I mean, aila's entrance into the world was, you know, traumatic. You know physically for some and definitely emotionally on my end. I was contemplating over it because I figured you guys, when I asked me about this, of you know getting through it and you know how it is when it's We've kind of call it the curse of too much information it's the personal trainer who justifies a way why they don't have to do stretching but they make their clients do it. Or, as a therapist, I don't need to go to therapy because I know all this stuff. So like, why would I need to go to therapy?
Speaker 3:Yeah and so I didn't do very well at taking the advice that I 1,000% would have given to any Client or friend that would have gone through a situation like that. So yeah, it was. It was rough During it, you know, during the week of her being in the NICU. I mean, I Respond well to pressure. You know, I'm an athlete. I love being the underdog, being behind in points like that's when I played my best rugby, you know, that's when. That's when it was time to shine back me into a corner. That that's when when it's gonna happen, and I did that during that Time as well.
Speaker 3:But then once it was over was kind of once we left the hospital and and the doctor went from there's a 1% chance she's gonna be okay to literally said 99% she's okay, no problems. It was like got home and then I let my guard down, the adrenaline stop pumping and that's when it really really hit. So yeah, it was. It was a rough, especially the first initial few months, you know. And on top of that we closed down the gym. It was during that time, you know, again, I'm like a game mode, so just complete clarity. It's like, okay, closing the gym is the choice for us at this. You know point in time Should have made that decision, probably three or four months prior, but you know that emotion and just connection with all of our clients and yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm just the fun of it all override. But yeah, it was, it was, it was tough.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's so tough and I know like Nicky was its own little. It's almost like once you've had a Nicky baby, it's a crazy thing to understand just how those people take care of your baby that's just been born in the back and forth. What was it like being a dad to two kids, with one in the Nicky and like kind of juggling all of that. You guys were in there about a week right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I still haven't been able to listen to that episode of your guys podcast yet, so I'm not exactly sure everything that was shared. But you know I Was getting dressed up to go in. You know I was in there for my other two kids births and but it all happened so quick. By the time I was gowned up they're like, okay, you got to come into the room next door where they bought her her lifeless body in there and Sure, she told, like our friend, good friend of ours was the anesthesiologist on and so I'm in there with a la.
Speaker 3:You know it's, it's Not good at all. And then Ben walks in and I'm sure he didn't do that, but he didn't say anything. He just kind of looked at me with tears in his eyes and put his hand on my shoulder, which I interpreted as Kara didn't make it.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 3:I'm standing there and the thought entered my mind Okay, I'm a single dad of two, maybe three kids. How's this gonna work out? You know. You Know, if she does, I could already put two and two together. If she does make it, I know she's gonna have severe disabilities. And you know, then I've got my other two kids at home.
Speaker 3:And so I went from that to, however, many Minutes later they had to have been no more than 15, 20 minutes felt like forever. Ben comes back in and says hey, kara's okay. Dr Stishner throws Okay, not a single father, two kids, maybe three, you know. So still still in that kind of mindset, you know, and Frank, I don't know how deep or many go into this, but I'm, I'm a God fearing man, I'm a religious person and you know, by the grace of God, our girls here, so that that's the only reason she's here, frankly. And After, after that, so I, you know, I'm there and I Pray that she would live. I blessed her to that she would, she would live, and I was at peace at that moment.
Speaker 3:And Because right after that, that's when her heart rate spike, like started climbing, and then there's like the frantic in the room, and Because it was just, it was flat in there, like nobody's doing anything, effectively what they were, just waiting for her heart to completely stop. And so it starts ticking up, ticking up, ticking. You know I'm just, and so that just all over the place. And you know, it was later on that morning, you know, because this happened at 2 am, around 2 am, it was, you know, for around 4 am when the neonatal specialist said, you know, there's, there's 1% chance that she will, she'll be normal. And even then I was like I don't care, my girls here, you know, like it's God already answered my prayer, she's here, like that's enough for me. I don't it's Whether she has disabilities or not. So, from from, it was still, you know, still an emotional during it all. But I'm having that kind of peace definitely Help me get through that first initial intense time, for sure.
Speaker 1:Man, yeah, the power of prayer is, yeah, amazing, and Ela is perfect.
Speaker 3:The NICU reunion was just last, last week. So we went to the NICU reunion and oh my god.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot of people there and.
Speaker 3:So cool and His name is Dr Rideout. So he you know, and I work at the hospital now ran into him a couple times. Oh yeah also ran into the OB that that delivers and did the surgery and saved saved my wife and my kids live. But you know he's, he's the guy, you know he's super hero. You can there's just people all around him hold my baby.
Speaker 3:You know, it's like scene of a movie like hold my baby you know, taking pictures with all these kids and stuff, and so I was actually working on the day. So I took off. I told Karen hey, there's Dr Rideout, go, you know, just go say hi. And so Karen said she went, you know, hey, do you remember? He's like this is proof God works in hospitals. That's what he said, you know to To Kara and, of course, because it's not too often, you know there's there's there's babies and Aila's situation that actually make it, because, yeah, there was actually a another. Aila was the first kid to use the, the cooling device.
Speaker 1:Oh really long time long enough.
Speaker 3:The machine was actually broken During the warming up process, but the machine wasn't working, so they had to manually warm it up.
Speaker 3:Wow after a look at it, they got a new machine sent down from primary children's hospital and one or two weeks later I can like the same situation happened to another family and you know we're talking to the nurse and she she said, you know, like after seeing Aila, well, oh, this kid's gonna be fine, this kid's gonna make it. Unfortunately, the he didn't make it, but you know she then it's just like man. Why did our girl get to make it?
Speaker 3:There's that little bit of almost like guilt, that like, oh man, why did? Why did our girl get to make it? And this other kid that you know, on first impression hadn't hadn't been without Um oxygen for as long, and it happened while they were in the hospital, you know, like prime Circumstances, and he didn't make it. Which I mean, after getting through that little do, a little bit of CBT on myself, it's like, yeah, I'm like, don't discount the positive, like no need for me to feel like that, like yeah she's, she's got a mission, yeah on earth, playing for all of it, and and yeah and it's.
Speaker 3:It's my job to Ensure that she is set up to live the best life and have Be taught well and raised well so that she can accomplish whatever she's here to accomplish. Because I'm think I've passed, you know, my rugby days I think was my prime, and so it's like mine was purely a support player in the rest of this More tool capacity to make sure that my kids are able to reach their full capacity and potential in life.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say, when you think about doing that, like what are your key things that you do, whether it's on a daily basis or thinking about the future, to make sure you are Setting your kids up to live out their best life, I guess is the easiest way to reach their potential the joke in grad school, when you're going through, like the family, family dynamics and stuff, is every parent screws up their kid Because it's true, right, we like we're all doing the best that we can with what we have and what we were taught from our parents, or lack of parents, every kids.
Speaker 3:That you know. It's just, it's a moving target. There is no one way. But there are certain things and, as cheesy as it sounds, like quality time, like there is no replacement for that, and quality time doesn't mean quantity time, it truly means quality time. So I'm lucky, I feel like I have both. I mean, when we're had the gym, you know it's my own boss and so I was able to schedule whenever and and make sure I was there for all the things and and do all the stuff. Now I work at the hospital, I work seven days on, seven days off, and so I still get a ton of time every other week, right, and what I'm trying to do better now is, now that I've got three kids, is Individual quality time is what I'm trying to get better at instead of, yeah, let's all go to the park.
Speaker 3:No, because they need that, especially our boy, like Jack he's, he's such a. I mean, he's rough as guts, he's just a crazy little, he's just, he's a sensitive little guy. You know it's, it's my. My older brother tells me it was the same relationship I had with with our dad, and this isn't my biological father, this is the man that that rate at Jack's middle, that's, he's named after my. My dad, that the man I consider my father that raised me, said, you know, he just had to look at me funny and no, I'm crying, I'm done, you know, I'm like I'm stop, I'm not doing the thing, and Jack's the same with me.
Speaker 3:And so, whereas Kaia, you know she'll, she's and a la's already showing, but, um, yeah, it's, it's there is no one fit and making sure that we adapt to each child and to which is hard, you know it's hard because our knee jerk reaction, you know I was raised in and Very abusive home and so, frankly, my knee jerk reaction is just to to wallop, you know, you Know, you know a flick of the air, you know that that's, that's enough. I'm not opposed to spanking, but I found really early spanking didn't work with Kaia Um, so had to do something else. Sending her to her room didn't work either, because she can play all by herself just.
Speaker 4:Frustrating.
Speaker 1:You know I'll be like, fine, I'll go to my room, that's yeah crew.
Speaker 4:The other day was like I love time out.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, just just adapting. But the quality time and, and you know, doing our best as parents not to repeat the bad things that that we experienced, yeah, but if such a fine line, we're talking the other day with someone about the Gentle parenting, so that was like on the rise while during my time in grad school, so we're learning about it, and you know, even back then I was like no, no means no, you don't have to, you don't have a conversation with a three-year-old and and and I was talking about it with someone at work the other day and you know it's like just just letting them do it and expect like Jack loves eating the little cherry tomatoes and he'll eat so many that he gets acid poop.
Speaker 4:Oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 3:You know and and we can tell him as many top, but he just doesn't. So it's like no, why?
Speaker 4:because I, because I said so, you know like sometimes yeah, yeah and and just having those, those boundaries.
Speaker 3:And Again, this is something where we'll sometimes like Following through yeah, that's the hardest one. My kids I miss with me, because if I say something's gonna happen, they know what's gonna happen. We're outside last night, you know there's door-to-door salesman knocks on our door and you know I hear my son's Yella to Kara.
Speaker 4:I hate you.
Speaker 3:No, I know he doesn't know what I hate, you means Right he doesn't know what it means. He's heard some other kids say it, or whatever. Mm-hmm but he knows it's enough to get a react. But I'm like he's never said that to me Because he knows. The first time Kara told me that he said it to her. You know, he got a flick, flick in the air. I might maybe spank them on the butt as well and get in your room and then the outpouring of love after like that is a cruise, yep, but after the right, so after he's the pain that he's feeling on, come out.
Speaker 3:And then, hey, son, because now, at three-year-old, he's just now let's talk about it, yeah. Yeah, like, hey, hey.
Speaker 4:I saw meme the other day that said I'm sorry, but gentle parenting is for gentle kids. I've got gangsters.
Speaker 1:Like I was gonna ask who shared that. I knew one of you shared it and I was like that's so true. Like I've seen ones that are also like me trying to be a gentle parent and then, like the fifth time of me saying it with a calm voice, and they're still not f-ing listening, losing my mind. Like at some point you have to be kind of stern and let kids know who's boss. So I'm all about like hey, let me try to be patient, that's something I need to work on. But at the end of the day they're still kids and they don't rationalize the way that we adults do so.
Speaker 4:Like you said, you can put your foot down.
Speaker 3:Hey, when's my birthday?
Speaker 4:He does ask that every day.
Speaker 3:I've heard him ask that oh it's like Bro, like if you ask him, you're never having another birthday you know it's like.
Speaker 1:That's what I want to say.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, because hey, it's in ten months, it's a no, I'm not gonna do that every day for the next year, you know. But yeah, again, it's that fine line, right and it's. You know, I was working in residential, we've worked on, you know, I was mostly working with with, yeah, at-risk youth, you know. But kids are kind of like dogs, like they can read and smell emotion and the underlying tones of what's going on, whether it's subconsciously or what, but like so it is really more about Our intent. You know, and this is a bit more on the, maybe we'll shoot side of things, that's my favorite place to be.
Speaker 3:It's not really the. You know we can always do better. Maybe not yell, but what's a yell? You know like the lap that you got to be stern, but they know if you're serious or not. You know like they can suck. Oh, here we go again. Yeah, yeah, you just all right, let it out. Let it out, dad, cool. And then go back and do the same thing. Yeah, like that, just like dogs, like that, they can sense the, the intent, because I've noticed even ailer now, just at a year, so I've got. So what, my time we're here, it's sharp. And so she grabbed it the other day and Louie, like fish, my little with it.
Speaker 3:And then like whatever, look I gave her, like she, she knew, you know, I'm like at one now.
Speaker 4:I thought I was like yeah, but then you, but then you got, you got the stop. Now let's explain and you can ask.
Speaker 3:She's getting everything, like I'm boiling the crap out of that little gosh and but, yeah, like I felt. But you know she could sense it, she could see it, in whatever Pain, the painful look was on my face that she was like, oh, like, what did I do at one year old, you know, and so to me that's just more In the trenches, knowledge of like. Okay, it's more about the intent. The words and stuff are important too.
Speaker 2:But you mentioned to and I know that's but you you've worked for quite a few years in residential youth treatment and specializing in addiction recovery, especially with teens and adolescents. So what is some of your advice that you would give to two different types of parents parent of young children for ways that they can try to avoid some of those addictions that play, you know, adolescents. And then again, what would advice would you give to parents of older children who are experiencing those addictions?
Speaker 3:training them young is really the only way, because I was Got my start in with residential treatment with teens and Harsh reality is that by the teenage years you know that they've undergone 12, 14, 16 years of Mum and Dad are, a certain way, most most of the actual therapy I Did and residential was more with the family, with the parents Right, and trying to help them like, okay, here's what needs to happen in your kid. Comes back home Because they know what buttons to push, they know how serious mum or dad are About following through with consequences. You know when parents is yellow, he's, he's totaled three cars. I'm like so went, why did he get the second car? You know was my first question I total a car and then you got him another one and then another one.
Speaker 3:What do you teach in this kid? You know, like maintaining and setting boundaries of course is very important and of course there Again, remember what I said at first we all screw our kids up. Every single one of us, ray the therapist, work with teens and like, I'm gonna mess up some of the stuff, for sure, but doing the best that we can in terms of, yeah, maintaining and holding boundaries, following through with what we say. But then again, I've seen. I've worked with both demographics of teens and adults, of those who come from nothing, which is also my own personal background and then in residential treatment. I mean, these are the kids of Fortune 500 CEOs, famous people. They're the only ones who can afford the Boku bucks that it costs to stay in these residential treatment centers, the ones that had everything they had the two of us.
Speaker 3:They got all the stuff Right. And then again it comes back to the common denominator that I saw was okay, they had all the stuff, but the time was the meaningful contact and connection there between the parents.
Speaker 3:Unfortunately, most of the time it was the dad that had no emotional connection. And when it's just mom at home without like they're gonna do their best and one two-cup kids slipped through the cracks because why they? Why would they give all the attention to? That was like Just get out of my hair, type thing, right, like this again. I'm just kind of abbreviating that the general Vibe of how it would go with a lot of these teen boys especially. But yeah, it's about Any substance abuse, any substance abuse, the root of substance use as loss of connection. And so it's. Substance use is there to either cover up emotions that they don't want to feel, but the root of it all is loss of connection, whether with themselves or with those around them. And so, yeah, just as, but then of course you don't want to go too far. On the other side, right, the helicopter parents, the ones that tried to control being the ones that smothered.
Speaker 3:Well, those kids can get pushed away too. So, again, it's such a delicate act, but the fact I remember even being taught this in grad school and it stuck with me in family studies the number one indicator, the biggest indicator of successful parenting was parents who inquired about how to be a better parent. So what it boiled down to was it's not the specific book, the specific program, the specific parenting approach. Right, Because maybe gentle parenting does work for some. I'm sure it does. It works for some and not for how gangster kids right.
Speaker 3:Yeah but it's the ones who are inquiring about it. That's the problem. Like you're actually trying, you're reading books, you're doing something, but the success rates are so much higher of having connection and you know setting and maintaining boundaries and that stuff. So that's really what it's more about.
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Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so hard to like. There's that fine balance between setting the right types of boundaries and not. I think some of us want to be our kids friends and we're not our kids friends, Like we are the parents, but also, like you said, setting boundaries without being so much of a heli like because my parents were very strict. They were very you can't do this, you can't do that, and that caused me to rebel and I know. And so it's just like so tricky to find that my daughter's nine, so we're not quite there yet, but she is still, you know, now she's getting to the age where she has her own friends and like, but I still want to be your friend.
Speaker 1:And also, like I know, I know that I also have to be tough on her, sometimes without pushing her away. So it's like but I love what you said of like if you're and we've said that before too if you're seeking out and you're even even if you're worried about becoming a better parent, like you're already being a better parent by seeking that out and trying and not just being set in your ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%, and I used to talk about this with with parents too, like it's like on the hierarchy, like friend is underparent.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like. That means you can be a parent and if and you can be both, but friend is underparent, it's not equal to, and a lot of parents try to have it be equal. Well, no, they're going to go that friend route every time to take advantage and to get what they want. Right, and we all do this in some ways. Right, If we can take, take an angle. I tried to get a right. Well, I did get a raise, but I played the race card at the hospital. You know, I'm a minority. Oh my.
Speaker 4:God.
Speaker 3:Because you know I'm working for this big organization. They got all their DEA DEI stuff.
Speaker 1:You're an also A might as well yeah.
Speaker 3:You know I'm like, yeah, I want to play this up as much as I can. To you know, I'm adding diversity, which it's all true, yeah, but I wouldn't I would. You know, like that made me cringe writing it. Yeah, but kids, kids are going to do that to their parents 100%. And if friend and parent are at equal plane, yeah, they're going to attack that friend angle and use that emotional guilt tripping that friends do to each other to you know, and so, yeah, and our parent is definitely, and again, they'll always come back to that, because why a parent should be and is more, they are there, no matter what. Yeah, no matter. If you say I hate you because you just got told to go inside because it's nearly dark outside, like, I'm still your parent, no matter what.
Speaker 4:Doesn't matter how right you are. They're going to hate you for it if they want to hate you for it. No, don't stand in front of that train. It's coming at you. You're the worst yeah.
Speaker 3:I always tell you know I'm school of hard knocks and, and you know we go to the park and my daughter, you know I remember when Kai would climb up the rock wall and you know I'd be standing back just kind of watching and other fathers that like I, and mothers too, for that matter, but you know they'd walk past and see her by and then, like I'd, the amount of people I'd see like go and like stand underneath my daughter just because they thought she was there by herself, which I was fine with too. You know I wasn't like hey, get away from my kid. You know, like right before she falls, that's kind of what I actually think in my head. I'm like, hey, if she falls, she falls, but.
Speaker 3:I've judged it like Okay, the chances of her seriously hurting herself super low. You know what I mean. I'm not like being reckless with with it. You know my, my son again at three. Hey, put your shoes on when you're riding your bike. No, okay, 10 minutes later he comes in with scraped up toes Bloody knuckle toes, all right. Get back out there. Doesn't put his shoes on again, all right? So instead of forcing him to put his shoes on, right, right, right Some would, some would do, some of us would do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Kara's like just so you know I'm the one doing that by the way.
Speaker 3:The little boy next door. Yeah, the little boy next door, cute little kid. Like I told you, I've taught Jack and Kyah the hammer fist. I'm like, hey, someone hits you, you hammer fist them in the head until they stop.
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh, I love it your balance is just so great, so so wonderful.
Speaker 3:It's hammer fist. I'm serious. She was live the other night because this kid wouldn't get off his bike and then the other kid hit Jack. And I watch, I'm watching from the window and I'm like oh my gosh, I love it. Hit Jack, which again I don't care that he hit, because again that's three, they can't hit you yeah.
Speaker 3:They're not going to like go to the hospital injury challenge and I watched Jack hammer fist them once and then grab the bike and flip some off and I'm just like, yeah, son, I got awesome. No, flip some off the bike, try like grab the front wheel oh yeah, and again, like that's safe, I'm, you know it's, but then Kara's at the other side, right, she's at the almost the opposite end of the spectrum.
Speaker 2:And so, like you said though, like we get through our conversation.
Speaker 3:I'm like, no, that's the balance that is going to be perfect for our kids.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know that I want them to be able to tap into that when they need to. But for the most part I think they're going to be able to take the loving, kind route. But if it's tough, but loving and kind, that's a perfect mix yeah.
Speaker 2:So so I feel like this is very clear.
Speaker 4:But so wait real quick. First, how did you get into therapy?
Speaker 3:to stay in America. So you know, I came here to play rugby in college but I had to do school to get to play rugby right. So most athletes in most schools are doing either a sociology degree or a psychology degree because they are the shortest degrees. I had to go. I had to go to a because I didn't actually finish high school in New Zealand. So when I come over here I went to a junior college and a couple of the classes that I took at that junior college directly transferred to psychology. So technically they're like hey, if you do psychology, you're a step ahead. They'll have one class less in sociology. I'm like psychology.
Speaker 2:Quick guess, ralph, let's do this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, you know, freshman and sophomore year, I'm on academic probation. I'm barely getting my 2.0 because I'm there to play rugby, and you know, then I'm kind of gathering like okay, education, you know, might as well put some effort into it. And you know, I'm through the. I'm through the. What are the core classes? What are they called them? I'm through the generals too. You know, in general, they're just designed to be stupid.
Speaker 3:I feel like now I'm actually getting into fun classes, but my and so for one of my capstones for my undergrad in psychology I had to do like a service thing. Well, of course I leave it to the last day I go on. The only one left is at the juvenile prison. No, no one wanted to go there. My gosh, yeah, Sweet, easy like it. You know because I'd already done.
Speaker 2:Right, I was a juvenile delinquent.
Speaker 3:I was a juvenile delinquent myself. So I'm like, yeah, this is like okay, relatable so.
Speaker 2:I go in there and it is.
Speaker 3:You know, I'm around these, these teams, these teenagers that are just like trying to be tough, and it's all the unspoken tough guy stuff. And again, I'm fluent in that language and so I'm just in there helping them with their math, helping them with their school stuff. And as I was leaving, one day, the one of the people there at the prison, they're like hey, like you're doing like really well in there with them, like what are you doing? I just said I'm not. I'm not afraid of them. None of you should be afraid of them.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, and they can see that I'm not afraid. So, after they did their initial size ups, even though, like, physically I was much bigger than all but one of them there's this one really huge kid in there, but it's the emotional size up Right, because they used to, probably these college sophomores and juniors coming in to do their capstones and trying to freak them out. So you know, I did that, loved it, and my rugby coach actually suggested he's like, hey, like, I think that'd be a good field for you, and if you get a master's degree in social work, you effectively be able to do the same, have the same impact, but get paid more. Yeah, okay, we'll see how it goes. And so I, senior year finished, and I didn't want to leave America. But the only way to stay here was to stay on a student visa. So I applied for the master's and social work program.
Speaker 3:I guess I like, truly like, my reason for doing it was so I didn't have to leave the country. But then, at the same time too, enough people interjected Another one of my professors, just out of nowhere. One day she comes up to me says have you thought about getting a master's in social work? I was like, well, nah, but my rugby coach actually mentioned it and then again she spoke to me in a way that I felt was directed by the spirit, was was come from a higher power and not that God was speaking through her to me, but I what we refer to as promptings. I know she had a prompting to at least just mention that to me, and so it kind of created a spark. Grad school was easy. Now. I remember one of the first to say okay, right, about a dysfunctional family and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:I remember to me I felt like I was in slumdog, slumdog millionaire if you've ever seen that show yeah, you know it gets asked a question and then he has a flashback to a life experience that gave him the answer like that's true how grad school was for me, like there were the substance use stuff and dynamics and and and they also threw us right into providing therapy as well, first semester. So everyone's like whoa whoa, like we can't do it. They're like can you talk? Yes, can you listen?
Speaker 3:yes, all right therapeutic all that most people need is listening air, so you know you're not gonna make anyone worse, yeah, so yeah, that's how I got into that but went into the residential treatment and again, I am an athlete and I was powerlifting at the time and this is as I got kids into it as well my case. Yeah, it just works perfect, just integrating that the mental and the physical health into one and improving both at the same time that's crazy.
Speaker 4:I love that, like you, didn't intentionally get into the career, but it's pretty clear that it was meant for you. So and and youth specifically. So how has now become it becoming apparent after working with youth in addiction recovery like how has that affected how you parent again?
Speaker 3:because I've seen both sides, right. I've seen the ones that come come from nothing and end up being awesome. The ones that come from everything and end up being in dread, just like it's what. What are the underlying principles behind all of that stuff? But, yeah, I do, I think about it a lot and again, just given my upbringing and those with lots of different families, you know I've had a lot of families you know I was able to take and like, okay, I remember this was really good with this family and I remember hating this and the disciplining structure and all of this. I'm just able to kind of pull different things, but again, it just always boils back, like being being a husband and father and my primary roles here behind everything else. You know, yeah, I've got to work and but as long as I keep those at the forefront, you know, even if I don't make enough money, then my kids will look after me later. That's my backup, backup retirement plan pretty good plan.
Speaker 1:Well, ray, you've talked a lot about, you know, caring for your kids and work. How do you prioritize then also caring for yourself, making sure you take care of your health, your fitness and also show your kids that side of you?
Speaker 3:yeah, frankly, I've let the fitness side slide terribly. I'm over this. Last year that was one of the first things to go and it was it's yeah, it's after all, the years in the gym setting, in the mental health setting, not following my own advice on a few things really really come back to to bite me. But you know it's not like I'm so far gone I'm lost all hope, but yeah, it's more. You know, trying to slip on those Lulu lemon ABCs and that's about just burst out extra, extra tight, just little, little, little things like that. You know we're gonna do the Grand Canyon next week, in two weeks.
Speaker 3:Part of me is like, oh geez, like how much you know, like, and I just hate even questioning am I gonna make it? You know like I so, and I know that's very different. Other people wouldn't even pretend that they would do the grand kid, but I know for me that I need to have that at a higher level. You know they see their mom working out a ton, getting more active with the kids, for sure, but in terms of self-care, getting back into it, I've noticed an immediate improvement on mental state, but what I completely defaulted to was was my. I am very tactile as well, and so I went through a puzzling phase doing puzzles yeah, and you're baking in your woodwork wood yeah, yeah yeah, we have to cover that puzzle was like I mean I, and then I would preserve them too.
Speaker 3:So I had like 50 a stack of puzzles that I done and then I threw them away on my one more or anything sad to take them apart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, carving.
Speaker 3:So I initially just got into that because, especially as my kids are getting older, just part of our heritage. So I'm, my biological mother's Maori, native New Zealand and Kara's heritage is Hawaiian and so, being in neither of those places, we want to make sure that our kids have connection with, with their heritage. Yeah, I'm super proud of my Scottish side as well, my, my European side, you know. So that's why I started competing in like Highland games and stuff like that. I'm a big believer, you know. We see a Moana, like what he said you don't know where you're going until you know where you've been, and just being able to draw strength from from our ancestors, from like ancient ancestors and recent ancestors. But yeah, so I wanted to carve some, some traditional artifacts. Actually, it actually started off with a piece of stone stone.
Speaker 4:You started with the stone doing it to jump into the hardest thing why, not? Yeah, so this, this one that I have here, my uncle back in use it, so this is stone oh, my god, oh, you do not want to be so if for everyone listening yes, they are the real life movie of Moana.
Speaker 1:They are yes, they are, they are yeah, and so it's the same stone.
Speaker 3:Here it's a. It's called we call it Parkour. Here it's a rock in the region of New Zealand where I was raised. But it's what my ancestors used to make knives and chisels and spearheads and stuff, and so I bought a piece back from New Zealand and you know, I don't know how to work it, so it snaps into and so I'm working that piece and I walk out and Jack's holding it in the garage drops it you know so let's go back a little bit and work with wood.
Speaker 3:Let's start with wood yeah, yeah so yeah, just it's cathartic, you know it's just, it's one of those self-care things yeah where I'm actively doing something. But it yeah, it's cathartic, it's just a good self self-care practice. I've always enjoyed you to have yeah, yeah, but then I've also got an end product as well. I think that's right away from the puzzles, right, because I finished it. Then I'm like, yeah, I'm not gonna put these on the wall or whatever, but with the like I have gifted things that I've carved already, you know like to the family up in Alaska and things like that.
Speaker 3:So baking and cooking the same I feel that just always enjoyed it. I like my treats. I actually was just baking some things earlier.
Speaker 4:I'm upset that I haven't received any of these things cookies in a stone in the mail as
Speaker 3:soon as possible yeah, send it, send carrot a rogue with some really good treats, yeah, so truly like I look at them as, because I don't typically cook for the entire, unless it's, like, you know, a treat or something. But I mean whenever Kara's gone out with you, you know, down in Texas or you know I try new. You know I'll experiment different things and stuff, especially late night when I'm just here by myself yeah kids are asleep.
Speaker 3:It's like I know feeling, but feeling a bit lonely but bored. Can only watch so many episodes of the office again. So you know, just engage in something that's cathartic.
Speaker 4:I bet the kids love that too, when they wake up to treats, yeah.
Speaker 3:So self-care is important, right and again, we all met in the fitness industry here and we know how important fitness is and freaking Prada Andre for getting his butt in the therapy. I tell people like, treat therapy at least, like you treat servicing your car. You know you got to go in every three, six months. Just just check the oil, yeah, check the oil, get the oil changed. If you do that frequently, then you know if you're like me. As soon as something pops up like I mean I'm driving straight to AutoZone or somewhere, pump up the top, you know. And then you've got other people who would wait for the engine to explode before they do anything, you know. So that's when it comes to the car. But most people treat their mental states like that. It's just, yeah, check engine lights on, it's fine, like you know it's, it goes long is that how therapists tend to deal with their therapy?
Speaker 4:this therapist?
Speaker 2:dealt with it.
Speaker 3:You know, I've dealt with this before, like I've seen worse, you know. But and that brought the under pride right I was just flat out, right, full to, to do it myself, you know, or to admit you know I'm part of. I justified part of that because, like well, I got to be strong for the family that we're in this, like rough patch, like how's she gonna feel? Like well, frick my husband's in therapy because he's bloody losing it, you know whatever proud of you for seeking help, you're not thinking rational when you're in those minds right part of what there is is once I finally started doing it.
Speaker 3:It's like when I actually talk that out loud to someone yeah they're like you really think. You're gonna think like that. I'm like nah, but when I say it to myself in my mind yeah, of course you believe it, yeah, so my mind is a crazy thing yeah, self-care is really important and a great way to do is through physical, through expression.
Speaker 3:Typically the term is is expression, whatever your expression is, and that, if that's physical expression, through exercise, through carving something, through journaling, through painting, through express, you know you've got to get it out somehow. Yeah, but the old bottling it up definitely doesn't work. Yeah, for sure, bottling things up definitely it does not.
Speaker 1:It explodes at some point. Yes, at some point it has to come out all parents hear that twice.
Speaker 4:Rewind, play again.
Speaker 1:Yeah and I, like you said, it doesn't have to be the traditional like you're sitting on the couch across from someone. I have been working with someone too and I we talk on the phone, and so I go for a walk for the hour that we're talking and it's so helpful, like because I'm a killing two birds with one stone and that movement is like it just drives more out of me, I think, than sitting there like fidget. Otherwise I'm like sitting there fidgeting with something and yeah, it's just so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, make it when there's evidence based behind that, to even just the walking or a little bit and right yeah, left brain, right brain, with with the motion and the eye, that's. If you've heard of EMDR therapy, mm-hmm, there's a piece of where you kind of follow like that. How that all come about was a therapist out walking and they were watching the trees and looking back and forward and then they're like and they might be something behind this, and then they dug into it. Now to modality of a very effective therapy.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, there's walk and talk and on the again on the phones. Fine too, right it's? You know that I tell people we were professional talkers or listeners. Now you know we do have clinical. We've got the education piece in the experience as well. That's what's separate. But, yeah, the boils down to just being able to give calculated, educated guesses on what next best steps forward would be based on literature, based on, you know, interpersonal dynamics, interpersonal communication, all that type of stuff, and just giving a or even just doing the listening part again, and always separate it to minimal.
Speaker 3:But typically for men, they want some tactical what do I need to do? Yeah, and most, most often, quite often for women, it's like just having a place to vent, because we're all the best, we all have the solutions to our own problems better than anyone else, typically, and if we're able to talk it out, we'll usually be able to figure it out ourselves. Same with parenting. That rule applies to parenting too. We actually just talk it out and think through it and like, okay, well, this didn't work for Kaia, but this is gonna work for Jack. What's well, let's try this, let's try this, let's try that, instead of like this is how my parents did it and I turned out great, so that's how I'm gonna do it. Like, yeah, that's where we start to go down rocky paths on the parenting side.
Speaker 1:Any last little tidbits of advice for mainly for dads out there or future dads who are just like looking to be the best version of themselves. It can be anything we missed. We covered a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I talked way too much. Surrounding yourself with good people, of course, is just a good rule Good rule in life. I've got role models that I look up to that cross so many boxes, but primarily for me, like are they good men? Are they good fathers?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Two of my biggest mentors in life. What actually drew me to them was like seeing interaction with their kids.
Speaker 4:That's cool.
Speaker 3:And like I want that like primary over everything else, because that's what it's all for right, and so because that's what most dads fall into that trap. Well, I work so much so you could go to the football camp, so you could do the dance lessons, but like it doesn't matter if there's no connection there later on.
Speaker 3:You know, right, but surround yourself with good people, and the same thing in terms of they are gonna see how you interact with their mother, and that is so important because they are going to replicate how they see you interact. That's how they are gonna. You know, sons and daughters, they are going to look for that and other people because they think that's normal and that's what they're going to think is the norm. So you know, making sure that the relationship between mom and dad is rock solid as well. And so you know, kara busted up one of the this is something we talked about, I know about a couple of months ago. Now you know. So we've got one of those journals where it's got prompts and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:It's a couples connection journal. It's called Promptly.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, I've heard of that one.
Speaker 2:And every week or however often you want to do it. There's just prompts in it, that you each write your own responses to you and then you can just discuss it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's cool, and so you know. First I'm like hey, I'm a licensed therapist, I've given, I've got all the answers, woman, you just need to ask.
Speaker 4:I have all the answers. Just listen to me.
Speaker 3:That's my knee jerk reaction. Right, that's my knee jerk reaction. So, as you put this board up, I'm like no, because no man is a prophet in his own land, right, and every couple knows it. Like I can say something to her dumbest idea, she comes back. Ray, guess what Betsy and Jeff said? I'm like I've heard that phrase.
Speaker 4:Andre told me the same thing the other day.
Speaker 3:No, I'm not like, because this would happen in residential treatment too. They'd say what?
Speaker 4:did you say?
Speaker 3:What did you say to my kid?
Speaker 4:The same thing you said.
Speaker 3:And what I ultimately ended up saying was like what you said, it's just not coming from you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, and so not being so, like having someone else come in to help, to help hold us accountable. You know we're the therapists, but yeah, those would be the big three Surrounding self with good people, good role models, other good men for your dads out there, priorit, you know, making sure that relationship with mom, with your spouse, is one that you want them to emulate. And three not being too prideful to take outside help and just having a coach. Having a coach right Is having someone else. Even if you've got all the answers, have a coach, and it can be a physical person coach, or even this book, you know, cause we've done couple therapy as well. But just not being too prideful to take help, accept help.
Speaker 1:I love it Awesome. That's such a good way to end it with some like tangible steps. So this was amazing, Ray. I learned a ton of things, so thank you. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 3:No, thanks for having me guys Just so proud of you, like what you guys are doing and just like it's very easy to support you and what you're doing. And you know, when Karen's like I'm going to, I'm going to rogue, I'm like cool, have fun.
Speaker 4:I'll just take off work and get a babysitter and come with her.
Speaker 3:I'm like yeah, I'm like oh, like I haven't flinched once when she's come down to like because which is amazing. Thank you. What you guys are doing is just awesome and believe in yours and again I want to support what she's doing, cause I want my daughter's future husbands to do the same for them. Yeah yeah, so I want to make sure that they see me doing that, so they don't choose some chump who's going to be like nah, you're going to be chained to the freaking kitchen sink woman.
Speaker 3:Sorry, not as good as my dad, yeah yeah, you know it's like so, yeah, nah, you guys are just awesome and we appreciate you guys having me on, thanks.
Speaker 1:Ray, hey, mitt, mamas and Trainers, if you enjoyed our information, you will love our programs and resources. We have a pregnancy fitness program, postpartum program, along with guides on movement modifications and nutrition, all designed to help you safely and effectively stay active through pregnancy and return to exercise postpartum. You can even bundle our programs and save so that your whole journey is covered. You can find all of these resources at themittprojectcom.