The MINT Prjct

Unraveling Breastfeeding Myths and Realities with Tiffani Dickerson

• Season 1 • Episode 32

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Today we chat with Tiffani, an international board certified lactation consultant and the owner of The Breast Choice Lactation. Hear about the struggles and triumphs of her personal journey with breastfeeding, which led to her dedication in helping others navigate their own unique paths.

Navigating through breastfeeding can be a challenging journey, filled with questions and uncertainties. When is discomfort normal and when does it warrant seeking professional help? How can partners lend their support? Tiffany gives us a wealth of practical advice and tips to answer these crucial questions. But what's more, she tackles the often-overlooked element - the intersection of mental health and breastfeeding. Ensuring a mother's mental well-being is as vital as the physical aspect of breastfeeding. She guides us on different support methods that can be employed, including reducing the number of milk removals, seeking out therapists, and the sometimes necessary choice of discontinuing breastfeeding.

Choosing how to feed your baby isn’t a one-size-fits-all decision. Tiffany touches on the multitude of formulas available in the market, shedding light on how to find the right one for your little one. Tiffany also differentiates between biological norms and societal expectations, stressing the importance of finding a supportive community for your breastfeeding journey. We wrap up with a note of caution on the use of Fenugreek as a supplement for breastfeeding mothers. This episode is full of wisdom, insights and practical help for breastfeeding moms and their partners. Join us and empower yourself with the knowledge to make informed decisions that best suit your unique situation.

Where to find Tiffani:
https://www.thebreastchoicels.com/
@breastchoicelactation

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Speaker 1:

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Speaker 2:

All right, guys. I am so excited for today's episode. We are going to be chatting with Tiffany Dickerson. She is an international board certified lactation consultant and a hospital and private practice lactation consultant, an owner of her own private practice called the Breast Choice Lactation, so they help provide community breastfeeding support outside the hospital and she was actually my lactation consultant in the hospital when I had my son six weeks early and she continued to help me so much at home, so she is honestly the best, tiffany, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. Thank you, Betsy, for that amazing and awesome intro. You were a pleasure to work with and I was so thankful to be a part of your journey.

Speaker 2:

We are so happy to have you and I y'all weren't on here when when Tiffany popped on, but I was like I could cry because, as you know, you kind of build those relationships with your lactation consultant, especially when there's awesome as Tiffany she was. Just I got pretty lucky for sure Challenge and vulnerable time. Yeah, oh my gosh, it really is so it really is. Yeah. So, tiffany, let's back up. Let's start at the beginning. How tells your background? How did you get into lactation? Tell us your story.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely so. By trade I'm a registered nurse first, so I got that first. I've been a nurse since I'm about to age myself a little bit 2009.

Speaker 3:

So I've been a nurse since 2009. And my story is it's pretty unique Was an lactation was on a lactation consultant. First I was a NICU nurse and so I worked with premature babies in the NICU. I'm still currently do that like once a month because I just can't, I can't seem to give it up, but I am a definitely a was a NICU nurse first and then I my journey kind of took a turn. I was just kind of hanging out being a NICU nurse, traveled, got married and then I had kids and then I had twins prematurely, at 27 weeks. Yes, and that is that's probably like a whole other episode, because my son passed away at 10 days old.

Speaker 1:

Oh, sorry, so sorry my daughter is our survivor twin.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, thank you, but yeah, like I said, that comes to a whole another episode for that.

Speaker 3:

But our daughter is our survivor twin and she is awesome, amazing, and she is five years old now, and so when I was in the NICU, I definitely went from being like a NICU nurse to a NICU mom, and a mom that was very vulnerable and very dependent on All the support that I received like in there on the other side of it is completely different, right, and so I received so much support with breastfeeding in the NICU and it really just kind of start to change my view on things and I wanted to continue to give this support, and so it really empowered me that I received so much support, not only in the hospital but when we went home, because she was in there for three months so she decided to like ride it all the way out and come home on her due date.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, she liked the NICU nurses.

Speaker 3:

And so we wrote it out. But then our journey didn't in there with breastfeeding, and so we discovered that she breastfed so much better than she bottle fed. But we had to be watched closely because we needed to make sure that she thrived and she grew and met all her Malstones and all the things, and so when I received that outpatient support, that just poured into my heart even more and really Encouraged me to seek this out and be able to support other nursing parents and mothers as well, and so that's how I got into lactation legit, like I started getting books and started studying while I was still postpartum and I got my certification as lactation consultant in 2019.

Speaker 4:

And here I am so cool, just in time for Betsy to have crew. Yeah, it's what to say just in time, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so you talked about how your experience kind of led you to Shifting to lactation. What were some of the nitty-gritty like things that maybe you struggled with or were helped with In and out of the hospital?

Speaker 3:

Sure, absolutely. It's a lot bringing a premature baby home, and that is another episode whole story.

Speaker 3:

But it's a lot bringing a premature baby home like you have a lot of Necessary but a lot of follow-up appointments and they want to make sure that they're growing and they're thriving, and so that was something that was really like we got to make sure she's growing Okay. We got to make sure she's doing okay, and so when I sought out my on my own, I got a support person from WIC and she gave me so much. She's a at international board certified lactation consultant. She gave me so much support and she say you can come at any time if you just need to do like a weight check, just so we can see that she's doing and that she's thriving, and kind of prove it to your pediatricians Like let's do it, like we want to support you however we can, and so that was very fundamental for me. So just having that that person that I could you know, resource and seek out is about information from Throughout my journey. That was super helpful.

Speaker 4:

So you've been doing this for a few years now. What are some of the most common issues that you see mom's dealing with as far as breastfeeding goes?

Speaker 3:

Sure, absolutely. Things have definitely changed in the last I would say two or three years. I feel like what I saw five years ago. I'm seeing different issues now, to be completely honest. So I feel like the first call that I get is I'm in trouble, I'm having nipple pain, and I see that a lot, and Then from there we've got to find out the causation of it. Is it just because maybe you're just not as comfortable or you haven't quite gotten down the perfect latch? Is it because there's something anatomy wise going on?

Speaker 3:

and we're seeing so much more tethered oral tissue. And that's a terminology that you might hear people reference as like tongue ties, but the incident of that is on the rise. And Is it because we're trained and we're more skilled and we're referring out and we're having more collaborative care? Or Is it because of environmental factors and diet and our food and our quality of food?

Speaker 3:

Yeah yeah, it can, really it can get deep, but I would say that's usually what I get called most out for is I'm having nipple pain and I'm trying to figure it out.

Speaker 4:

Would you say, okay, so going along with that. I mean, so I've nerd breastfed three, three kids and always the first two weeks are always painful. I mean like, yeah, they're always painful. So like is there a time span where it's like, okay, this is normal, this is normal. But now I'm at week you know, three, week four, week five. What would you say is kind of normal to expect as far as that just getting used to that pain goes, or are you not supposed to have that Pain at all?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so discomfort. What I like to say is discomfort is normal. Pain is common, but not normal, okay, and there's a big difference between that and so, although a lot of women experience pain and it's common for them to have pain, that's not normal. So, getting a good last technique, they're feeding frequently, you know they're. They're putting stimulation to something that is not usually utilized in that kind of way, right, and so discomfort is very normal.

Speaker 3:

In the first two weeks you may have a lot more discomfort While babies trying to figure out how to how to latch even if you've done it before, it's still a different baby, right, and they all have their own unique challenges and each baby is so different. But I say, beyond like two weeks, of having Some discomfort from just frequent feedings and just kind of getting the flow down and babies come out and they've been through this Pelvis and they rock and roll or they've been removed via cesarean and they have a lot of tension in their bodies, right, and so that first two weeks sometimes, when you're experiencing some of that discomfort, there's tension in their jaws or there's tension with their body that needs to kind of work itself through as they adjust and adapt to their environment more. Sometimes we just see a resolution of that and then it happens right at that two week mark that your pain is starting to subside.

Speaker 4:

Okay, yeah, so so your advice would be okay. If you're still feeling this extreme discomfort and pain past two weeks, this would be a good time, if you haven't already, to reach out to someone for some help.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, and the earlier the better, because there could be things going on beyond like just a common Mislatch issue, like tethered oil tissue or the other things like that going on. So the sooner you reach out, the better. Now I will say, with that same aspect like cracking, bleeding, that's not something you want to wait on. Those are things. You want to get somebody in there right away, even if it's just to come over and sit with you and really work on Latching properly and making sure that baby has an adequate latch. You want to get sooner intervention rather than later.

Speaker 4:

Cool. Thank you, that's so helpful. Um, so how would you say the spouse could, a spouse could be involved in this? You know, because you know mothers, they're the ones doing the breastfeeding, and and then you have, you know, the spouse or the partner that they like want to help or support. What's their role?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Let's just talk about the support person and the village. I call it the village and the support person is a part of your village, essentially, right, and so they are definitely things I feel like they're always uncertain of. Well, what can I do to help? I'm not the one that's breastfeeding. Well, guess what? I need some water. How about you?

Speaker 1:

Make sure.

Speaker 3:

I'm staying hydrated. How about? My hands are really full right now and I'm really trying to make sure and I'm in the zone and I'm just going through the motions right now. Make sure I'm eating. Help take care of that. Bring me something warm to eat. Bring me something of my favorite to eat. How about you get the baby ready? If I'm recovering from a cesarean delivery, why don't you get the diaper change for me? Get the baby ready. Support me with my positioning pillows. Wow, those two me like everything.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, everything else besides breastfeeding. And then let's talk about, and then let's talk about like in the household, right, like there are extra the chores Don't stop, chores right, I think, don't stop happening hard to do those with a human attack.

Speaker 3:

Exactly so, like delegating. Hey, I really need you to pick it up. I know like I'm usually the dishwasher or on the laundry. How about you help me with those things? And being able to verbalize it right, because we want our men to read our mind, but our support persons don't always do that right and so being able to verbalize it, or even making a to-do list before the baby gets here.

Speaker 3:

Hey, village, this is what you can do for me, hey, when the baby comes. These are really ways that you can help me If you really see that I'm not eating, like being in tune with that and making sure you bring these next.

Speaker 4:

I love that, that's. That's really cool, because I do know that a lot of, a lot of partners or spouses or whatever like, oh well, that's just your job, like I wish I could help, but there's nothing I could do because I'm not the one doing it. But there's a lot of things that can be done, like you just said, that are really vital, um, and important roles. You know, if you're not drinking enough water, if you're not eating enough, you're not going to be able to make enough for your baby. So and that just Helps to decrease your stress as you're trying to figure out this feeding journey with a new human.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and even like they can still do other things. I know they're not feeding and nourishing the baby, but in the first two weeks, men, skin to skin is such a game changer, right, and you know that. You can see how it calms the baby. They're adapting to a completely different environment and they have a sense of familiarity in a familiar voice. Right, they've heard your voice before. They know the sound of your heartbeat and as soon as you pull the, pick them away, you go to sit them down in a cold bassinet and you're putting in them in an unfamiliar environment and they don't have that warm body and that familiarity of that heartbeat.

Speaker 3:

That's something that they can do. Let the mom come up for 20 or 30 minutes, or the nursing parent come up for 20 or 30 minutes For air, by giving them a 20 minute rest break and doing some skin to skin.

Speaker 1:

I think that can also Ease some of the. I know, right after I had my daughter there was a little bit of bitterness of like I'm getting up every two hours, you're sleeping like and at the time I actually was. We were living with my parents and my mom was the one to. She would get up with me and like change my daughter's diaper while I was kind of getting ready to breastfeed, and just she knew that yeah she was like, oh my god, you need help.

Speaker 1:

But even just like having that person in the room some of the time so that you don't feel so alone. At two in, the morning. When you're so exhausted, like. So like ask, because to my you know detriment, I never really asked him to get up and do anything for me. So I like ask and you know, if you don't ask they might not know what you need. So I love all those points.

Speaker 2:

Yeah absolutely yeah, if only they could read our minds.

Speaker 3:

They can help.

Speaker 2:

They just don't think outside the box. I love that you also kind of bridge that gap of not just being strictly lactation but that's a relationship that you build with that person, that couple, whatever, and so being able to give other advice with other kind of postpartum issues is a really cool thing that I assume other lactation consultants, not just you, would also do. So that's kind of a value I see in that role for sure.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. It's definitely part of my prenatal, so that's something that I teach when I do, you know, teaching breastfeeding before baby arrives. It's something that we go through and we talk about like ways that it's a whole section on partner support, in ways that they can give you that support.

Speaker 4:

That's awesome. So, going along with some of the challenges that you typically see, are there more specific challenge to NICU or do you typically see kind of the same thing? Do you find that you work more often with NICU babies and NICU moms?

Speaker 3:

I definitely, that's definitely my niche. So if I had a niche or niche, niche, niche, niche, niche, that's definitely my love, right, my heart. That's kind of how I got into it and I feel like with NICU nursing parents, there's a unique challenge in needs. There are unique challenges in needs. So it's so much support that is needed outside of the NICU as well as like where you're going through it for sure and making sure you get a pump set up and making sure that you're, you know keeping adequate milk removals. But then when you go home it's like okay, like peace out, we'll see you later. You know good luck with that baby, and you're just uncertain and you're not sure if you're, are I supposed to keep breastfeeding?

Speaker 3:

Am I supposed to just give bottles? How do I do both? How do I get the baby fully to the breast if that's my goal or the chest feeding, like, how do I do those things and how do I reach those goals? And so then that's when I really, you know, I have a love, I have a drive, I've been through it. I still individualize it, but that's when I work one on one with them and we work on a goal Like what are your goals? What do you want to accomplish? That's always my starting place, because my goals can never be your goals, right, so you have to tell me what your goals are so that I can help you work to achieve those. And so, nick, you nursing parents usually have unique goals and need long term breastfeeding support.

Speaker 4:

Makes sense.

Speaker 2:

That one gets me I know, love it.

Speaker 1:

So I know this is probably kind of a sensitive topic. I know that I struggled a lot with breastfeeding. I just and I did have a good lactation consultant, but I still I don't know, I just had a really hard time with it. It really stressed me out. I had like mastitis, like anything and everything that I feel like you can struggle with. I felt like I struggled with. And then my sister just had really similar like really hard time breastfeeding. She, with both of her kids, kind of decided to make the decision that it was just a little bit too much at the time and she moved on. So, knowing that, yes, this is such a natural thing and I know every mom like or most moms like go into nursing as, like, this is something I know I really want to do. Is there a point where, okay, can every mom breastfeed and where's the point? Or is there a point where you know like maybe it's time to move on to formula or another route?

Speaker 3:

I think that's a great question. I even have, on my assessment forms, a mental health assessment, because we have to consider all things and your mental health always comes first. Of whoever I'm supporting, their mental health always comes first. And there have been clients that I've worked with where I know that they're at the point where we're doing a lot of things, we're doing a lot of things and it's getting to the point where I feel like their mental health is suffering and is much more important than their original breastfeeding goals. And so at that point I will usually kind of regroup with them and I'll say, hey, like you know, how are you feeling emotionally, mentally, like how is breastfeeding making you feel, how is it affecting you mentally? And so we'll kind of try to go through a couple of different things. We'll seek out, you know, therapists and we'll try to work through some of those issues.

Speaker 3:

But if we get to the point where I feel like mom's mental health is just really taking the toll and I'm giving her alternative ways, so you know, hey, instead of trying to, you know, pump eight times a day, let's just go to six and see how your mental health feels, knowing that we may not get as much milk right With six removals a day, as we would with eight. But if you're mentally in a better place at six, then let's just make the most of your journey and let's ride this six way and let's try to bring in some other supplements, knowing that nothing can really replace that eight milk removals a day. But let's meet you where you're at and let's try to see if we get you down to six, if you're in a better state mentally, and so that's kind of like another step that we may try out. And then just a constant reevaluation. And there have been times where I've been like, do you, you know, do you just need someone to tell you that it's okay to stop?

Speaker 3:

Like, do you just need to hear that for me that it's okay to stop and it's okay to be done if you want to be done and really giving them that support, Like yes, my name is lactation, but that I support you from prenatally to weaning and weaning is is the end for most people, right?

Speaker 1:

I love that answer so much because I think there is just this pressure, you know which. Again, I really, really wanted to breastfeed and I tried so hard and I, but a lot of it, like I kind of extended it on and even though I was really struggling mentally because I felt this pressure, that like this is the way to do it and I should be doing this and this is what's best for her. And yes, breast milk is like gold, like I think we all agree, but, like you said, like mental health is so important, I I literally waited until my appendix ruptured and then I went ahead to go into the hospital and like I think I'm going to stop breastfeeding because I don't want to pump in the hospital. But it was like crazy to think about. I'm like that was like my and I was a little bit relieved, but I didn't have anyone telling me like, like you just said, it's okay.

Speaker 3:

Like after the factory. We're like, yeah, it's okay.

Speaker 1:

Right Giving you the permission you tried.

Speaker 3:

And when I'll tell you all the benefits, like yeah, this is going to definitely take you out of your goal. You know this is definitely going to take away, like nothing can replace breast milk. Everything can try you can formula, can try to be a lot of things, but it's not breast milk. But that doesn't mean that you can't find a happy, you know a happy medium and that is supportive of your and supportive and considerate of your mental health, right, yeah, and we have to always keep all those things in mind.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So, with that said, Do you help people in that situation with choosing a formula and like what types of things should someone look for when they get to that point?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I do help some with formula selection and it's usually kind of what's going on with baby, because some babies have intolerance of it and so then we kind of get into is your baby gonna do better with something that's partially digested? Evaluate and kind of, with the case in way, those are proteins, what that ratio is, because breast milk is 80 20 and most formulas are 6040, so we can find something that's partially broken down. Then some babies will be much more tolerant to those particular alternatives to breast milk, known as formulas. And then linking you up with donor milk, like donor milk is always options, not always an affordable option for people, but Sometimes that is something that some families want to consider as they're trying to decide like, am I gonna continue to do this or if I'm having a hardship and I'm just trying to bring my milk supply up and increase my milk supply up? It's another thing that we utilize. There's so much more about formulas on the market now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, where do you, where do you send people? Like, obviously there's a lot of information that you have, but do you have resources that you can send? People are like to stay up, new Up on that, new information about new formulas and things like that.

Speaker 3:

I don't have like a specific like website I send them to or anything like that, but I definitely kind of consider what's going on with the baby, because there are unique needs for each baby and I'm not inside of like a one-size-fits-all. So if there are babies that are having like milk intolerances and we have to find different formulas that are gonna meet their needs and their goals, and so they may have one that's more, like I said, partially digested, that we may want to go to Without like going into specific brands, and now there are some pediatricians that can give information on Goat milk formula alternatives, and so that's kind of new and up and coming as well, and and so I give information about that.

Speaker 3:

But it is definitely kind of a one-on-one, kind of more personalized what's going on with that particular baby? Or they having rashes and breakouts, or they having, you know, eczema like signs and symptoms? Do they have some kind of food intolerance or allergies, so that we make sure that we customize that? But pediatricians are definitely Someone I lean on as well, as there are Nutritionists and dietitians that specialize in pediatric formulas that have more information about that as well.

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 1:

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Speaker 2:

So you keep touching on the supply. Let's talk a little bit about um, kind of a mixture combination here of Getting supply up. What are some tips with that? And, and from a mental standpoint, how do you help women?

Speaker 3:

because, especially if you're pumping, you can see, and that'll, that'll do some tricks on you for sure, when it goes well or when it doesn't so first to kind of figure out if they're having supply challenges, I kind of like to categorize it and figure out Is there an actual supply issue? So there is truly a supply issue or is there a perceived supply issue? And this, a lot of this perception, stems from Social media.

Speaker 3:

what we see on, you know, on social media, a lot like there's freezer stashes, and I think that I'm supposed to have this freezer stash, when in actuality that's not most of us, most of us are not in that category and most Of producing a supply beyond what we need, which you'll hear reference as an oversupply right, and so really getting down to the nitty gritty of it, of the cause of it, so women that usually truly have an actual supply issue, it stems from something. So either I had a really good supply going on I dropped my middle of the night feedings that's usually when we see a big supply issue happen or I have a thyroid issue that could be causing a supply issue. Um, I have a um Insulin resistance that could be causing a supply issue. I have something Completely beyond my control, anatomy wise and presentation wise, so I don't have adequate breast Tissue to have an adequate supply and that's known as something as igt and it's just insinficient glandular tissue. So there are things like that that are like you legit have a supply issue. Something is causing your supply, right. That's kind of category one. And then category two is I think I have a supply issue when really I don't, I really may not, right, and so I think I'm supposed to have this freezer stash and I'm only making an ounce an hour every time I pump, and so I'm getting three ounces every three hours, which is very normal and spoiler alert is what we expect, and so I think I have a supply issue and I actually don't.

Speaker 3:

So most women, when they first start out, um, or Nursing parents, when they first start out and they're feeding their babies, you're not going to be able to see how much you're making, right, you're going to have to be able to get comfortable with knowing that the signs are there. What are the signs of there? We see that baby is peeing and pooping. So what goes out, what goes in, is coming out. We hear, start to hear swallows the third to fifth day. Right, that's normal signs that your Something's going in there, maybe swallowing when you're having something happen, um, and then we're following, like your pediatrician is following the baby's weight and they are having adequate weight gain, and so it's kind of those three signs so, peeing and pooping, adequate weight gain. You can hear swallows. And then how is your babies Acting? Are they content after they feed, or are they always just frantically hungry, like they are starving? Those are ways to be able to tell, without Quantifying it and seeing it, to know that your baby is getting enough.

Speaker 2:

So what about for pumping? Because I know in like, let's say, a mom or the baby can't come out yet if they're in NICU. How do you help? What are some things that you help moms with, whether it's supply or pumping wise if the baby isn't directly latching.

Speaker 3:

Sure. So if we have some separations or we have baby in NICU, the biggest thing is getting off to an early start. So early removal is key. So ideally and what I only experienced myself and I definitely try to support my families with this, especially when I'm in the hospital is within one hour that baby coming, that golden hour that she would usually experience. You want to be doing some hand expression, and hand expression is just a francy term for massaging your breast and removing milk. Usually in those first early days, when that milk is super thick like honey, the easiest way to get it out is not with a pump, it's actually to get it out with hand expression. And so getting teaching that and instilling that prenatally I think it sets a lot of families up for more success, because when you have that, if you have that separation occur, that's one of your go-to tools and within one hour that baby coming out, you've got that happening so that your body can really feed off those hormones that transition when the placenta is delivered.

Speaker 3:

That's awesome, Gosh. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot, but like. This is why taking bits and pieces of this before the baby gets here can sometimes be really helpful. Because if I come into your room and I'm coming to see you as a hospital lactation consultant and you just deliver and you've got, you know, 15 visitors and you got this nurse coming in and this you know photo person coming in, and you got this and that person coming in. And now here I come in and try to teach you about breastfeeding. How much can you really retain at that one time?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a lot you can.

Speaker 1:

That's such a good point, like start doing a little bit of research or even talking to someone before, because I feel like I don't know my daughter's nine. So I don't like vividly remember if I I mean, I went to like a club, you know a birthing class and stuff but I remember even knowing like okay, this is such a natural thing, we're born to breastfeed Like remember the nurse handing me my daughter and I'm like what do I do you know? And so like I feel like if and I was stressed too so I think, just like going into the experience, having a little bit more information obviously you can't plan for everything, but at least having a little bit more of that confidence and so what about? So like thinking about like a working mom or someone who might need to be pumping at work, do you have any tips for making that experience less horrible? Maybe?

Speaker 1:

or like a little bit more maybe, like how often should they be pumping and then like what are some tips for making it a little bit easier?

Speaker 3:

So for work, going back to work, I try to tell them to bring in their bag a picture of their baby, not just like an actual printed picture of their baby too.

Speaker 3:

It's great to look at things in your phone, but it's nothing like having that printed picture out and taping that to your pump. I think that's a great thing to do. And then also having something that you leave your baby with and that you also bring with you, so something that you could squirt some of your breast milk on or that even smells like you, that you've had against your body, that you can leave with your baby, so that you know and you feel like, hey, I've left a piece of me with my baby while I'm away from them. And then also like having their little, a little one of their blankets or their burp rags or something that smells like them, and putting that next to your pumping bra while you're pumping, that familiarity, that smell, is going to really feed on your hormone, one of the love hormones and one of the hormones that helps the milk to eject, called oxytocin.

Speaker 3:

It's just going to like send it into overdrive and really rev it up and let that milk flow. Wow, that's really cool.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I love breastfeeding. Yeah it's beautiful.

Speaker 3:

But yeah, and then I also say things like talking to your, talking to your employer beforehand right. No one wants to have these hard, stressful conversations when the times arrive, but letting them know, you know, prior to your maternity leave ending, like I'm coming back to work, I'm going to need to pump this number of times. Ideally it would be every three hours. Someone asked me about that.

Speaker 3:

So, ideally it would be trying to hit that if you're fresh and new, right, you still want to have those have a goal of having either of nursing sessions or pumping sessions, hit a total of eight a day. So I just referenced that as like milk removal. So either baby's nursing or you're pumping eight times a day, right. And if you feed your baby right before you leave usually when you get to work it's early like one less stressor off your back you don't have to worry about. Okay, I got to pump. As soon as I get there you already have that milk removal knocked out and you're done. And so looking at pictures of your baby Tarnan's putting your AirPods on, listening to some quiet, like guided imagery, meditation, because the last thing that you want is like your brain to be stressed about, I got to get this milk out. I got to get this milk out and it totally interfere with that oxytocin release and you can't let your milk. Your milk won't let down as easily. Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 3:

I love those tips. And then just real list of expectations. Remember always that the pump is trying to mimic what your baby is doing, and so it's usually not ever as efficient and it's not going to completely empty you or drain you like a well nursing baby without any. You know anatomy issues would, and so don't let the pump be the end all be all of what your milk supply is. If there are so many other good signs there. Don't let that pump output getting your head and make you feel inadequate because you are uncertain about the mouth that you're seeing when you see a thriving baby in your face when you go home.

Speaker 3:

Some people just don't respond to pumps as well, and then I would also highly, highly, highly encourage meeting with the lactation professional prior to returning to work and getting size and making sure that you have adequate phalanges, because if your phalanges do not fit you properly, your milk is not going to flow how it should.

Speaker 1:

Gosh such good tips.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and here you are getting all these good tips, and you have that. This is what you do. So tell us more about your practice, tells about the breast choice, lactation and what it is, exactly what your services are.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely so. Breast choice lactation we are lactation providers, but we do infant feeding, so it's not just we only help with breastfeeding, right?

Speaker 3:

I work with premium families and that's going to entail a lot of a lot of bottle feeding and may involve formula and might involve other things. I help with bottle refusal. So if you have a baby that you're going back to work and they've been, you know, nursing really well at the breast, now you're like, okay, they have to take a bottle. How do we do this? How do we make this work? I do consultations with you and support you on that journey and getting them to accept and take a bottle and sometimes it's alternative to bottles, right. So I offer those services as well. I do prenatal classes, so I provide breastfeeding support before your baby gets here as well. I do in-home consultations, so I like to sometimes reference myself as like breastfeeding concierre. So I come to you like who wants to leave the house when they just had a brand new, a brand new newborn baby and so yeah, so I come to you. I service Southern Dallas. There is definitely a lack of support with lactation consultants. It's not enough of us.

Speaker 3:

There is definitely a shortage of us, especially outpatient, and so I serve the Southern Dallas area, I service Ellis County, so that's you.

Speaker 2:

That's me.

Speaker 3:

And then a little bit of Tarrant County, but I try to stay mostly on this side of town.

Speaker 2:

So for we should have told you this Jess is in Michigan, cares in Utah. I'm here. A lot of our listeners are from all over the country and sometimes all over the world. What are things that they can do to either get in touch with you online or connect with you there?

Speaker 3:

Sure, and I also offer virtual support.

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to be that I apologize.

Speaker 3:

I support moms virtually sometimes and nursing parents virtually sometimes as well. So to seek me out and get my information, I have a website and I make it very easily to sign up and book a consultation with me from there, and so my website is wwwthebreastchoicels. So the LS stands for lactation servicescom, and so from there you'll get information, you'll see information about, like, booking a consultation with me. I have worked really, really, really hard to get credentialed with as many insurance providers as I can to make my services, you know, affordable and attainable, and so that's something I really pride myself on, because I feel like breastfeeding support is definitely most successful with ongoing support, like not just I show up to your house one time and like that's the end of our relationship. Usually it's usually ongoing, and we kind of come up with the game plan of okay, I'm going to see you every two weeks from now for a month.

Speaker 1:

Love it, love the name. I love the name of it.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, my husband picked it out.

Speaker 1:

He's like, hey, that's witty yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yes, love it. So anything else you want to tell our listeners or like things that you would like them to know, either going into it or, if they're in it, struggling, any advice. You have to give words of wisdom.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. I think my biggest word of wisdom would be definitely get support and start to get into this prenatally and I think if you are first time mom, it is really important to just get an understanding of what infants biological norms are. I think, breaking that barrier and that stigma, because in our culture everything, especially in America, is just so fast paced, moomoo, move, hurry up, get through this, get through that get through that. Hurry up in Russia's baby along. Let's sleep, train this baby.

Speaker 3:

It's three weeks, it's a month old, it needs to be sleeping through the night on its own now, and that is just not biologically normal.

Speaker 3:

And so we've got to break these barriers down and this expectation that babies got to be have to be doing all these certain things at certain stages and really just helping parents to find their village and helping them to be able to support their breastfeeding journey. So that's someone that's delegating to. You know. Bring food this day, taking some of the weight off of them so they can really just focus on them and their baby and their breastfeeding journey, especially early on in the first couple of days, and then I would say, seeking out help sooner than later. So don't wait till you're three months in and you're trying to help get the baby back to the breast and work on breastfeeding. Like if you're starting to struggle, just go ahead and seek out support. There are several lactation providers here in the Dallas, fort Worth area that offer breastfeeding support outside of the hospital. So really you know utilizing those resources to so that you can get support early on.

Speaker 1:

That sparked one more follow up question that I have.

Speaker 2:

Same, we're just going to keep going.

Speaker 1:

You thought it was the end. It's not the end. Okay, so you see all of these things on, let's say, instagram or whatever. That's like take this cookie or herb or whatever to increase your milk production. Is there any truth to any of that, or is most of it like marketing mumbo jumbo?

Speaker 3:

Yes, I know. In short, most of that is marketing jumbo. Yes, absolutely. The approach that I usually would take is let's make sure that we have got the most, like we've done, frequency, so we've just got the most milk removals that we can get you out of the day, and usually that's about eight to 12. At first week, really, you know what? 10 to 16. Let's just start there. So if we've worked and we've gone through and we're making sure that, like you're doing your best job, baby is transferring milk, we've ruled that out, then I will consider and I'll have you consider some herbal supplements. I am not one that likes anything that is Fenugreek containing. Personally, it's not what I encourage any of my clients to take. Boost, because a lot more data is starting to come out on it and we're starting to see, especially if you're a Niki mom, you don't want to have anything that's containing Fenugreek. It can really raise a mom supply and then they can just plummet it and they can just happen really quickly.

Speaker 3:

So you're like, oh yeah, the Fenugreek is working great, and then all of a sudden you're getting nothing, and so your body can have a complete verse reaction to it.

Speaker 3:

So, there are certain herbs that can be utilized and support it without having to go like a prescription route and those kinds of things, but it's really about getting down to the root cause of it and knowing, like, what the patient's background is. So if they have a thyroid issue, there are certain herbs that I wouldn't recommend. If they have an issue with blood sugar regulation and insulin resistant, then there are certain herbs that are not beneficial. So I would take a much different approach to that. So that's why it's so important to really know what is, what's your reason for your health supply.

Speaker 3:

Because you kind of you know you'll load a little bit and you slept through the night, a couple of nights, and we got to just work on adding those back in and bringing it back up. Or is there's more going on to the eye than we really know? And that's when I work with your provider, like your midwife or something. To get down to the cause of it Okay, perfect.

Speaker 2:

So you said bringing that back up, and it made me think about if there's a mom here who, let's say, just stopped breastfeeding a week or two or maybe longer than that, how long is too long If they want to try and go back or bring that supply back up?

Speaker 3:

The sooner the better, but I have supported clients three months out and it's called Relaxating Relaxation. It is a lot of work and it is a lot of dedication and that's a very honest conversation that we have starting out Like what are your rise, why are we doing this, how can I support you and just kind of knowing the effort and the work that it's going to take to get you back there? It's not impossible. I have supported some nursing parents through that. It can definitely be done, but it usually takes a lot of effort and commitment.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's incredible.

Speaker 4:

I didn't know about that. I do have another question as well. Yes, I love it. We're a fitness brand. We help women through exercise, pregnancy and postpartum, and I have a lot of people tell me as soon as I start to exercise, or as soon as I increase my intensity on my exercise, my milk supply drops and so I can't really do exercise like I want to until I'm done nursing or when I'm really stressed. Usually it's the stress that causes the decrease. What are some of your tips on that and what have you seen as far as that goes?

Speaker 3:

Yes. So usually what goes more along with that fitness than the actual fitness itself is the dieting. And so when they become too calorically deficient and too nutritionally depleted, then their body is thinking like, oh, we got to protect Kara first and her body is inadequate in the nutrients and the caloric that she needs and so we can't make adequate milk for your infant. And so really making sure that we increase our caloric intake as we need to and not trying to be in a really low calorie deficit, especially those first couple of months before the hormones come back into play so I would say increasing it, and really most breastfeeding parents need an extra three to 500 calories minimum a day and that kind of supports breastfeeding.

Speaker 4:

That's awesome. Yeah, that's really helpful. So it's not necessarily the increased stress on the body. It's the increased stress without giving your body any fuel to, like you know, support that extra.

Speaker 3:

Yes, absolutely. And I mean there are some higher intense exercises that you can have extra nutritional importance. Some, some women, they just their bodies just can't do it. So you start low and you see how your body responds, and then you gradually build that threshold, yeah, yeah, and you gradually build that, yeah, absolutely, thank you. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 2:

Okay got another one. I love it. All right, keep them coming. So we asked this on our recent one that we had with the doula, if any of our moms out there are wanting to become a lactation consultant. You said there's a huge shortage. What is the path? Yeah, I know you started as a nurse, so yours might be a little different. Yes, the base.

Speaker 3:

Yes, that's a great, great, great question, and if you go on the board that certifies us called IBCLE, it's going to be real confusing. So I'll say save some to try to reduce some of the confusion. So, becoming a lactation consultant, there are three different pathways. So there's pathway one, which you are probably already some kind of healthcare provider, you're a nurse, you have some kind of medical background and you're going to kind of play into that background. You may have already worked women's services, you may already have a certain number of hours of experience, and so you go that pathway one and you just have to get continuing education. I believe it's 90 hours of continued, 90 or 96 hours of continuing education through.

Speaker 3:

I like the lactation education research, it's known as LER. They really make it streamlined and it kind of follows the different outlines of the IBCLE website, and so that's pathway one. And then there's pathway two that you could also utilize I feel like that's probably the less used one where you have to get a certain degree and certain requirements health sciences, certain classes you have to take. And then there's pathway three that you do more of an internship. And so I would say, between the three of the pathways, pathway one and three are probably the most utilized and so seeking out a mentor such as myself or some of my co-partners in Dallas, fort Worth area that are already in private practice or out in the community, such as a WIC facilitator, those would be the best ways to kind of lean on a mentor and get that program approved and your mentorship approved through the International Board Certification website and then just go from there and work with them and work to her meeting your goals.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, love it.

Speaker 3:

Sitting for an exam.

Speaker 2:

Love it Right. Go figure out if that's the thing you need to do, because apparently there's not enough of them. Yeah, there's not so helpful too.

Speaker 3:

Okay, just statistically, there are 33,000 lactation consultants for the world.

Speaker 4:

For the world, the entire world. Oh my goodness For the world.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, that's an intespective yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yes, I mean America does have a lot of large portion of those, yeah, and then Texas has. I think the last statistic I saw was, I want to say it's in the thousands, I want to say it's like either 1,100 or 1,300 of us in Texas.

Speaker 1:

Wow, Wow, my gosh. That is crazy, that is nuts. Yeah, we need more of you, for sure, we definitely do.

Speaker 2:

Just call yourself.

Speaker 3:

And you guys picked the perfect month to have me on, because we're actually celebrating National Breastfeeding Month right now. Yeah, in August, yes, perfect, that's perfect.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's the perfect time to have me on.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, love it. Yes, well, tiffany, thank you so much for coming on today. It was such a pleasure to get all these things. I'm sure we're all going to be thinking about more and more questions, even after this, and as we're listening, so will more time tell everybody where they can find you.

Speaker 3:

Yes, I'm also on Instagram. I'm primarily on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, but I'm not on Facebook.

Speaker 3:

It's a page there but I'm not very active. I am more active and most active on Instagram. So my Instagram is breast choice, lactation, so just breast choice and lactation. You can find me there. I post stories, I post information. I really try to put evidence base and try to debunk some of the misinformation that gets done on social media. So I'd really try to share things Any kind of informational sessions. I see aspiring lactation consultants. If I see scholarship opportunities, I post those there. So that's where you can most of the time find me Awesome.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. Thanks so much. Well, thank you again.

Speaker 2:

Tiffany.

Speaker 4:

It was great Of course, of course.

Speaker 3:

Yes, thank you for having me on the show, guys. Thank you so much for allowing me to share your space and hopefully empower, encourage and educate other perspective breastfeeding parents. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

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